NEW ZJ cage offer to the market.... opinions?

[DJJordache]

opinions?
rockhard4x4 bolt in cage: oh yeah they do bumpers too but I want ideas on the cage from what you can see as these are the only pics available right now....
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...=815247&page=2

[CrawlerReady]

Needs more cage in the roof area...more lateral support too.

edit: The part that would worry me most is right below the dash....in a hard enough flop, I'd be worried area would be most likely bend/break due to the stress created.

[fpkites]

Not bad - first thoughts are Raingler/etc. grab handles would be a must, spare in the stock location would be no-go (speaking from a 33" stock location user).

No door interference in the front?

Overall, I like it!

**edit: Me = FabTard, so aesthetics is what I was looking at

[UTChavok]

Gah $1000 for it. It would probably be cheaper to just go somewhere and get one custom fabbed. I guess theres no removing it though versus the bolt on.

[ATL ZJ]

Tube clamps, no C pillar hoop, and bolting to the rear wheelwells? I would pass or spend the $1000 they are asking to have a shop build a real one-off, weld-together ZJ cage.

Is it even DOM? With all those tube clamps and that relatively low price for something that includes what looks like cnc cut plate and powdercoat, I wonder if most of it is ERW. Any info on that, or pics of the unibody tie ins?

[OverkillZJ]

For rigs that aren't hardcore / going to be flipped often (read: ALL OF YOU WITH SHEET METAL!) - Badass, could save your life.

Someone donate $1,000 and a ZJ and I volunteer to test it

EDIT: Cam - for this purprose, ERW would be fine...

[adam99wj]

i think it would be a great foundation for someone that doesnt have a local shop to build a one off cage, add some triangulation to the roof and B pillar, then add some better mounting to a few places, ya wouldnt even need a bender, just some straight peices of DOM with a few notches and burn it in,

mabye there is or will be some add ons for this cage like bracing and grab bars

[zj95maxx]

[ATL ZJ]

For rigs that aren't hardcore / going to be flipped often (read: ALL OF YOU WITH SHEET METAL!) - Badass, could save your life.

Someone donate $1,000 and a ZJ and I volunteer to test it

EDIT: Cam - for this purprose, ERW would be fine...

What does "hardcore" even mean?

Anybody willing to spend $1000 on a cage obviously realizes that a rollover is somewhat likely, and wants to be prepared for it. Tube clamps as a sole method of joining tubes are questionable. Material becomes even more important when an inferior design is used. I really don't think we know enough about this cage yet to make a full judgment on that, but yes, ERW can be OK for certain things.

Why not just support a local shop who would love the business, and have them build a more sound cage for the same cost? Who wouldn't rather have a borderline overengineered cage that would definitely save their life than a disposable cage that might save their life.

Is any cage better than no cage, yes, but beware of a false sense of security.

[zj95maxx]

I will build someone a cage for 1000 and it will be many times better than this one.

Anyone want one?

[delawhere]

how does it connect to the body to tie it all in ?

[OverkillZJ]

What does "hardcore" even mean?

Anybody willing to spend $1000 on a cage obviously realizes that a rollover is somewhat likely, and wants to be prepared for it. Tube clamps as a sole method of joining tubes are questionable. Material becomes even more important when an inferior design is used. I really don't think we know enough about this cage yet to make a full judgment on that, but yes, ERW can be OK for certain things.

Why not just support a local shop who would love the business, and have them build a more sound cage for the same cost? Who wouldn't rather have a borderline overengineered cage that would definitely save their life than a disposable cage that might save their life.

Is any cage better than no cage, yes, but beware of a false sense of security.

Have you ever seen a ZJ with no cage after a car wreck or any rollover other than a soft flop? There's not much left.

If this was available "back in the day" when I was pushing the rig on 33's / 35's with the possibility of going over - I'd loved to have this. Before I could cut, weld, bend tube, or knew anyone that could, this would have been GREAT.

Is it as good as a weld in cage? No. But it's also cleaner, simpler to install "yourself" and doublessly better than nothing for safety purposes.

If you have a local shop - support them. If you think you might need some kind of cage and don't have access to a good shop, bender, welder, etc - props to the seller of this cage. They found a market and they're going for it.

[ATL ZJ]

Have you ever seen a ZJ with no cage after a car wreck or any rollover other than a soft flop? There's not much left.

really?... of course, that's not what I'm questioning.

I think you hit the nail on the head though about what makes this cage different than the EOR and other kits that have been around for years. A novice could install this cage (possibly sans framerail ties, let's hope those are included) in his driveway in an afternoon.

I don't think this really revolutionizes the ZJ cage "market", as small as it is. The effort and cost are potentially comparable to dropping the vehicle off at the local 4x4 fab shop and picking it up a day or two later. That option has been around for years. What this cage might have going for it is that someone who would not otherwise seek out a shop to build them that cage might be inclined to buy that shiny red one they saw pictures of on the internet. Meaning they are going after a different group.

Once we know the specs I think we'll have a fairer comparison but I still say for the price, you could do better.

[rstrucks]

Its A LOT better than nothing.

For someone who has more cash than build skills it looks like a decent option to me.

One of the things that I don't like aesthetically is the A-pillar brace thing.

[IndyZJ]

From these pics:

It appears to have no triangulation other than the little bars that bolt to the rear wheelwells which would do nothing.

If the tubing around it held, the plate around the dash would fold at the bends under any kind of serious load like what would happen if you used a cage as a cage - the front 1/3 of the thing might as well not even be there. None of the bends are supported in any way, leading me to believe it would fold about as easily as the body around it in a roll. It might be better than nothing, but $1000 can get you MUCH better.

If you're getting a cage because you need or even want one with the possibility of using it, this is a joke. I would feel safer in a simple 4 point cage with a triangulated b-pillar hoop. Anyone who buys this is buying a false sense of safety, IMO.

[sasdranger]

looks like something that would go in a show truck that wants to look tough..

it just looks like all that metal would just complicate extracting someone in the event of a roll.

Those pieces around and under the dash look flimsy.. No way in hell would I spend a grand on that...

[rstrucks]

I would really, really, really like to see this thing tested. I mean, bolted in and rolled down a hill.

To me its a throw away cage. Not too cheap but I'm guessing that it would keep the roof from caving in.

[OverkillZJ]

As far as internals go it's the least obtrusive I've seen, especially the plate around the dash in the front, but I wonder how strong that is. Possibly also the weakest cage, I haven't argued that. The price listed was "retail" - that doesn't mean anything any longer.

This is the first internal ZJ cage I've seen that can be mass produced, and installed by a newbie with basic knowledge - so again, good for them!

As I said, if you know a local place, go. The fact of the matter is that it's a BOLT IN Internal ZJ cage. If it's used, the vehicle will have already been destroyed. Most folks wheeling a moderately built ZJ will not go to the extent of a weld in cage. This is a compromise - and IMHO, a sweet one.

And to sumarize: Don't like, don't buy!

[BigDaveZJ]

A buddy of mine has their XJ cage and it looks decent. Is it comp buggy quality, certainly not, but for a mild rig it could make a lot of sense.

[dp96zj]

To me its a throw away cage. Not too cheap but I'm guessing that it would keep the roof from caving in.

That's how I see it. Sure, I wouldn't want to be in it when it rolls, but my guess is that it'd hold up better than having no cage. Granted, a one-time-use cage for $1000 is outrageous. I'd much rather have someone weld one in for me, but if I was some rich 'tard with money to blow and a showy rig, I'd buy it. Didn't we have a discussion a while back where welded joints were compared to clamps? I seem to remember that it was split nearly 50-50 on the strength of one to the other.

Also, I couldn't find a guide on how they installed it on a unibody, but I'd be interested in seeing it. More specifically, where it's tied into the "frame".

The main thing I don't like on that cage is how it looks like the triangulated rear support of the cage is tied to the sheetmetal on the wheel wells ONLY

I was also poking around and saw a forum where a guy (with a wrangler) claimed he rolled it on purpose to test it out, it held up perfectly, yet showed no pictures of the aftermath . Granted, they have a true frame to tie it into, but it's probably basically the same shit.

My conclusion: if you've got the money, don't wheel much, and too lazy to get a welded one, it'd probably be fine for ya.

[BigDaveZJ]

To make this interesting, I just got a pic msg from said buddy with the XJ and it looks like he at a minimum laid his XJ on its side today. Awaiting status report.

[dp96zj]

To make this interesting, I just got a pic msg from said buddy with the XJ and it looks like he at a minimum laid his XJ on its side today. Awaiting status report.

Great timing lol. Look forward to seeing the results!

[rstrucks]

The interest in this thread should be an indicator to have cages be the next TOTM.

[paulkeith]

That cage is a joke. Remember cage design 101: Treat nodes as pins....if the cage can hold itself up, you're headed in the right direction. Cage strength does NOT come from bending resistance at nodes or tubes holding load in tension. Tubing works in compression, period. That thing would flop over into a pile 1.75" thick.

IMO that cage will provide hardly marginal help in a rollover situation, and might even hurt you when you clang your head into it. The ONLY situation that cage may provide some assistance is in load coming straight down onto the roof, as that would load tube in compression. In a front or rear impact, you're asking 2 bolts into the wheelwells and the welds at the bottom of the tubes to hold all load, and in any side loading all you've got is welds (bolt clamps?) at the floor. And that A pillar bar? That's two unsupported nodes dead-ending into a U-shaped piece of flat steel. Think of jeeptech01's complaints about his crossmember flexing. Same shape.

Looks to me they've sacrificed function and effectiveness at every turn for the sake of "bolt-in-ability."

In a case where denting of the tube is not a primary concern, I think ERW is acceptable. In compression and bending it is largely equivalent to DOM since both are still mild steel.

No thanks.

[dp96zj]

FWIW: http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19032