Axle options ??'s

[Ted_Z]

I'm putting together some axle pair options. I'm looking to step up to long arms and 33's/35's by next GSW. I've tried to rank some axle options by strength (comments welcome). I'm also trying to stick with rear disks and parking brake so a 9" or 14-bolt would be out for now.

LP D30 / D35 - stock stuff
HP D30 / D44A - What I'm running now, better than above but no rear locker
waggy D44 / isuzu D44 - good aftermarket support, zuzu's typically come geared w/ 4.30's
waggy D44/ ford 8.8 - front will need new hubs for 5-bolt, rear will need spacers/adapters.
HP D44 / Ford 8.8 - front will need to be narrowed, rear will need spacers/adapters.

So basically I can stay with what I've got (I'm running 33's on the trail), or step up to some combination of a D44's and/or a 8.8.

[BigDaveZJ]

What about the HP30 & 8.8? That's all you need for 33's to 35's.

[Cody]

I would go with hp30, 8.8 and alloys in the 30 if you go to 35's.

[CrawlerReady]

waggy D44 / isuzu D44 - good aftermarket support, zuzu's typically come geared w/ 4.30's

This is the exact combo I run right now....except I've got alloy's in the front and am IN NEED of some alloy's for the rear (pics of that reason on my build thread). I also run 4.56 gearing and 37's though.

The one downside to the rear isuzu is that it is narrower, so spacers are almost a must. And the fact that nobody makes any alloy shafts for it....or at least that I have found yet.

[Ted_Z]

I would go with hp30, 8.8 and alloys in the 30 if you go to 35's.

I'd rather step up to a d44 before investing $500 in alloys. I'm anti-alloy, but that's just me .

[BigDaveZJ]

So if you're anti-alloy, how do you expect the 44 to be any stronger? The u-joints are the same as the 30.

[Cody]

an alloy shafted 30 is much stronger than a stock 44. Unless you're concerned about ring gears and ball joints.

But, since you should be conerned about shafts (since that is what you will break the vast majority of the time), the 44 is not an upgrade from the 30.

Also, why narrow a 44 to 8.8 width? Why not just run them stock width with a 9" rear, and run some offset wheels to suck the track down to 75" or so? Seems like a whole lot of polish to put on a 44 especially if the only upgrade you're getting is BJ/knuckle/ring gear strength--which is fairly uncommon breakage for a 30 (other than Matt who was the ring gear killer)

this gives me an idea about a new poll. Maybe I have this 44 hate for no reason....

[Ted_Z]

So if you're anti-alloy, how do you expect the 44 to be any stronger? The u-joints are the same as the 30.

True that the 44's u-joints are still the same size as the 30 I'm running now, my attraction to a 44 is the bigger brakes. Coming down some of the stair steps on Cliff hanger and had my foot to the floor and I was still creaping forward. I run 31's on the street now 'cause stoping short is imposible with my 33 trail tires.

Anyway, I know people will think its crazy, but I want the u-joints to be the fuse.

[CrawlerReady]

Anyway, I know people will think its crazy, but I want the u-joints to be the fuse.

Hmmm...yes I do think you are crazy. You will end up breaking the u-joint and in turn breaking the ears off your inner/outer shafts.

[Cody]

I never once broke a joint that didn't take at least one shaft with it.

I ran superwinch hubs. I probably broke 40 of htem, but I carried slugs on the trail for spairs, could fix a hub in 5 minutes, and they have a lifetime warrenty. Free and 5 minute fix is better than 30 bucks + shaft + 45 minutes to fix.

so ya, you're crazy.

[BigDaveZJ]

True that the 44's u-joints are still the same size as the 30 I'm running now, my attraction to a 44 is the bigger brakes. Coming down some of the stair steps on Cliff hanger and had my foot to the floor and I was still creaping forward. I run 31's on the street now 'cause stoping short is imposible with my 33 trail tires.

Anyway, I know people will think its crazy, but I want the u-joints to be the fuse.

So then put the Jeep in neutral so the motor stops pushing you forward? I don't have any braking issues with my 35's.

[Cody]

my 93 didn't like to stop with 35's and 4.56's, but the proportioning valve was set up for drums and I never got around to kung fu-ing the brakes.

Braking is deffinately good though. No fault in wanting to improve that.

[Ted_Z]

Why not just run them stock width with a 9" rear....

I want a rear axle with stock disks. Adding disks to a 9" is another $500 and complicates the parking brake. If a 8.8 isn't strong enough then I might look for a late model ford van semifloat 60.

Seems like a whole lot of polish to put on a 44 especially if the only upgrade you're getting is BJ/knuckle/ring gear strength

The last time I checked, the 30 was the axle of choice to polish. You forgot about lockouts, bigger brakes, high steer and servicalbe bearings.

[Cue-Ball]

You can also go with a C clip eliminator on the 8.8 so no spacers and no C clips.

That is my plan for my 8.8.

Dirk

[Ted_Z]

Hmmm...yes I do think you are crazy. You will end up breaking the u-joint and in turn breaking the ears off your inner/outer shafts.

I never once broke a joint that didn't take at least one shaft with it.

So long as I don't kill the ball joints in the process, I don't care. I can get stock shafts locally for $25. Then I can just tack the ujoint caps to the ears. I can't remember where I heard it, but it was explained to me like this: "Axle shafts are like rubbers, you use them once and throw them away". Even if you don't tear the ears off they are usally distorted so you wouldn't want to use them again.

[BigDaveZJ]

Whoever told you that must really like the skinny pedal. I'm running the same shafts in my HP30 now that I ran in my LP30 for 6 or 7 years with no issues.

And on the braking issue, even with only 3 brakes I still didn't have any problems stopping.

[Cue-Ball]

Gearing also helps with the braking. Maybe install some 4:1 lowrange gears to the T-case to help with that.

I know that when we put Jerod's into LOW RANGE we rarely had to hit the brakes. It was really nice.

[Ted_Z]

What I ment to say is that once you blow a ujoint, don't reuse the shaft even if it looks ok.

[Cody]

I want a rear axle with stock disks. Adding disks to a 9" is another $500 and complicates the parking brake. If a 8.8 isn't strong enough then I might look for a late model ford van semifloat 60.

500 for disks? Ouch. I don't remember being into mine nearly that much

The last time I checked, the 30 was the axle of choice to polish. You forgot about lockouts, bigger brakes, high steer and servicalbe bearings.

I'm just saying that most people who wheel ZJ's will never break a hp 30 with alloys. Nor would they break the hp44. So why put all financial and physical resources into a 44 if the 30 will hold up? Hubs? big dea. High stear? My room mates XJ has more clearance under his currie setup than I do under my high steer. Bearings? no idea. never serviced them lol.

It seems like you already have your mind made up so I'll butt out of it. I figured my insight might be somewhat relivant being that I've built, owned, and wheeled 3 different ZJ's that run pretty much every axle combination you have listed up there other than a rear 44, plus some others.

[Cody]

What I ment to say is that once you blow a ujoint, don't reuse the shaft even if it looks ok.

I used all kinds of slightly wollowed out shafts for spares. Welding the caps is key, and I would never ever ever run a 44 joint with out at least the cap welded or the shaft welded for full circle clips.

So, if you don't mind changing out shafts on the trail, then why do you care about hubs? Is your plan to just run slugs?

[Ted_Z]

Cody, I do value your input. I'm not trying to poo-poo what you've sugested at all. I see your point and I've seen it posted before the the 44 isn't worth building because you could just build a 60 instead. I tend to agree with that.

However, I'm trying to put together a low budget upgrade that I can work on incrementally. While the d44 (or HP44) isn't that much stronger than a d30, it does have some nice features (brakes etc).

Chances are once I spring for long arms I'll just wheel the axles I've got under the ZJ now as is. Add 2" pucks on top of my 3.5" spings and stop chewing up my tires in the fender wells. I bet it will be a year before any axle upgrades. I'll most likely stay at 31's street, 33's trail for a while too. (man, 5.5" lift on 31's with cut fenders is going to look goofy.)

[BigDaveZJ]

http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=124673

[dirty]

I'm relatively new at this (flame suit on), but on my '97 I went to a junkyard and scrounged up a HP30 and a D44 off an '87 XJ. The front is damn near a bolt on, the rear requires perches.

The '87 HP30 has front disks, and from what I can tell (again, kinda new to this), the rear D44 will accept almost any '93-'98 disk setup off a ZJ, as long as you get all the parts and drill out the rotor to fit over the hub center. I'm in the final steps gathering parts for this...I'm sure someone has done this.

Nice thing is, junkyard parts are plentiful for both, and aftermarket support is pretty good.

~dirt

Edited to include link to ZJ d35 to XJ d44 disk brake upgrade.

http://jeep.off-road.com/jeep/articl....jsp?id=257819

[downtowncb]

I'm going the HP30 route in the front, which is almost done. But I still can't decide on a rear. I have been looking at the Dana 44's from a Rubicon. Those can be had for 1200 brand new with the stock locker, regear to 4.56 and call it good. But I did a search and can't find anyone who has done it, so that makes me wonder why? Is there something notoriously wrong with the Rubicon 44's that I just haven't heard about?

[nate]

I think you need to think BIG and not spend money on small axles.

I did the D30/8.8 thing and now it's the D60/D70 thing.