Project Lowis

[KevinF]

Most of the LCA brackets I've gotten from TNT have that crack like you showed. It's from where the metal stretched as far as it could and started to tear. It will be fine but if you're concerned about it when you weld them in place...just tack the corners and clean it up with a flap wheel.

I was told by an old-school metalworker that there are a few reasons for that to happen. I'm going to paraphrase what I *THINK* he said, because it's been a while, and because I ain't no metalurgist.

~If hot-rolled plate is used, there is a "grain", and brackets need to be bent with the grain, rather than across it. If cold-rolled plate is used (PO?...which is more expensive), then the problem becomes far less of an issue, if at all~

We got into a year-long dispute with one of our vendors a few years ago who sent us a batch of brackets that were cracked like that and I refused to use in production, which is when I was doing the research, as they didn't know what caused it either (or they were not telling me what caused it, one of the two). After we got the dispute handled, we have not had the problem happen again. Now that we have our own press brake, we have far more control over the batch as well.

Kevin

[MoonWorks]

Those LCA brackets are the only thing I've seen from TNT that was "sub-par". I do agree with what you said about the grain of the metal and that's probably why they crack like they do. The tip of that corner starts to "pucker" when it's bent the way it is and everyone I've seen has been that way.

I can imagine you're much happier having your own brake now so you can handle it all in house.

[LSRGreg]

one other thing that can cause those cracks could be they are using a die that has too sharp of a radius on it, causing the metal to "bend" too much, making it crack. If they used a larger radius die, the metal would curve more, and not want to pull apart.

im sure it probably won't hurt anything, but since your going to be grinding, and welding on it anyways, might as well fix it.

G-

[ZJones]

one other thing that can cause those cracks could be they are using a die that has too sharp of a radius on it, causing the metal to "bend" too much, making it crack. If they used a larger radius die, the metal would curve more, and not want to pull apart.

im sure it probably won't hurt anything, but since your going to be grinding, and welding on it anyways, might as well fix it.

G-

Thats what it looks like. I think they make to severe of a bend and it cracks.

I PM'ed them on JF so we'll see what they say.

[chadjans]

Those brackets look like cold rolled to me.

[KevinF]

Those brackets look like cold rolled to me.

I need to book a session with your Lasik surgeon, Chad, if you can tell the difference between hot rolled and cold-rolled from behind a computer monitor, lol. My *GUESS* is to the contrary...they may be hot rolled because of the scale I *THINK* I see.

Brian, are the cracks ONLY in those two corners pictured, or are they in all 8 corners of all 4 bends equally? If the bends on the other two tabs are not cracked, again, I would point to hot-rolled steel being the culprit, and it would be that way because those bends were on a different plane, and therefore the grain would cross in a different position on those bends.

Greg has a great point with the smaller die, however, if that was the case, the cracks would show up consistently on EVERY corner, not just the two that are in the photo, but then again, I can't see the other side of the bracket like Chad can with his X-Ray Lasik vision.



Kevin

[LSRGreg]

yeah.. i would guess hot rolled too.. it looks like there is a little bit of scale.. and they have a blueish gray tint... cold rolled doesn't have a blueish tint, and no scale..

but its hard to tell in those pics. If i remember correctly, my track bar mounts were made from the same stuff, and i think it was hot rolled too..

If you had a pic of cold rolled and hot rolled next to each other, its easy to tell the difference.

That is a tough call.. anyways i would weld them up if it was on my rig.. takes an extra 30 seconds?

[chadjans]

I don't see any scale. It is pretty easy to see scale if it exists. I would hope that vendor of this size would be using quality materials.

[ZJones]

I need to book a session with your Lasik surgeon, Chad, if you can tell the difference between hot rolled and cold-rolled from behind a computer monitor, lol. My *GUESS* is to the contrary...they may be hot rolled because of the scale I *THINK* I see.

Brian, are the cracks ONLY in those two corners pictured, or are they in all 8 corners of all 4 bends equally? If the bends on the other two tabs are not cracked, again, I would point to hot-rolled steel being the culprit, and it would be that way because those bends were on a different plane, and therefore the grain would cross in a different position on those bends.

Greg has a great point with the smaller die, however, if that was the case, the cracks would show up consistently on EVERY corner, not just the two that are in the photo, but then again, I can't see the other side of the bracket like Chad can with his X-Ray Lasik vision.



Kevin

They are in the same corner on each bracket and only in that spot, no where else.

[KevinF]

I don't see any scale. It is pretty easy to see scale if it exists. I would hope that vendor of this size would be using quality materials.

There is nothing inherently "bad" or "good" about using hot-rolled material, however, when it's something that requires a bend, hot-rolled is probably *NOT* the best material to use for that particular application. That's all. It doesn't mean that they aren't using quality materials...it just means (assuming this truly is hot-rolled) that they would have benefited immensely by choosing a different material for *THIS* particular job, because hot-rolled cracks when it's bent like that.

Just like the differences between round, square, and hexagonal tube, I-beams, channel, and so on...there are purposes for all of them in various applications, but in *SOME* applications, you would definately *NOT* choose a particular material.

KevinF

[KevinF]

They are in the same corner on each bracket and only in that spot, no where else.

Yeah, you may want to give them a shout and ask them what they recommend you do with it. It does sound like hot-rolled was used if there are only two cracks. Bob's a good guy...I'm sure that he'll take great care of you and give you some options. Tell him that I said "hi" when you speak to him.

KevinF

[chadjans]

I guess the round about point I was trying to make is that almost all vendors now-a-days sell their tabs and brackets and everthing else built with materials withOUT mill scale. If they wish to compete on perceived quality they may want to consider using cold rolled materials. I have never gotten a machine / vendor made bracket made with mill scaled material.

When my buddies order a sheet of 8 x 10 material for the laser cutter or plasma cutter the only thing they can get their hands on is CR.

[quadratokn]

Wow look at that crazy truss. Get it welded yet?

[ZJones]

No not yet. Working on getting all the parts for the build right now.

[mudsticker]

beautiful rig....all around

and hands down the nicest rear bumper i've seen

[ZJones]

Wow haven't updated this thread in a long time! Little update on what's going one. I sold off all the parts for the build a few months ago cause I wasn't into it anymore. This month I had the Jeep for sale, had a buyer ready to buy it but I got declined for an auto loan so I'm stuck with the Jeep for awhile.

There are a few things I need to fix on the Jeep including the front driveshaft which still hasn't been replaced since GSW 2009 and the front axle needed some work. Instead of trying to fix my current shit bag Dana 30 I bought this one from a local off road forum. It has a stronger diff guard (1/4"), u-joint axle shafts, already has the correct yoke for when I get a new front driveshaft, no rust like the axle that's under the Jeep now, stronger 3/16" LCA mounts, bump stops, and 4.56 gears with an ARB air locker which I'm really excited about.







After I get it installed I'm gunna save for the rear 4.56's and front driveshaft. It'll finally be wheelable again after that!

[ZJones]

Oh yeah and Wednesday I took off the rear tire carrier part of my bumper because I didn't have the license plate light wired up and I was also getting tired of how it looked. I'm working on mounting my high lift jack using the swing out mount, should be pretty cool. I'll post some pictures of how it looks tomorrow.I took off the rear tire carrier part of my bumper because I didn't have the license plate light wired up and I was also getting tired of how it looked. I'm working on mounting my high lift jack using the swing out mount, should be pretty cool.

[CrawlerReady]

So.....you are going to put it back up for sell then or......?

[ZJones]

So.....you are going to put it back up for sell then or......?

Probably not for awhile. I'm just going to fix it and enjoy it until I can afford a DD.

[ZJones]

Got the new Dana 30 installed a couple months ago at Kevin's.

Pulling the old turd.



Old turd out.


New turd cleaned up.

Before:


After:


Done.



I also did the TJ gas filler bezel mod.



Been ordering other parts too.

Front and rear 4.5" Rubicon coils
BlueTorchFab 44a diff cover
44a 4.56 gears with master install kit
44a bearings and seals
XRC8 winch
JKS front upper shock mounts
Black cladding
Mechanics tool set
12" travel Bilstein 5125's on the way



And finally, decided to ditch the ARB Bull Bar and get an Iceland Offroad front bumper and fender flares.

Just some pictures of it sitting on the Jeep with nothing bolted down. I'm still waiting for the flares to get here and I need to paint everything. I'm planning on running 4.5" lift with 35's.

[biggoofy]

Looking good man!

[it usually runs fine]

Thats pretty cool man. Should have bought that tool set along time ago and you could have swapped the dirty 30 yourself for free.

[ZJones]

Thats pretty cool man. Should have bought that tool set along time ago and you could have swapped the dirty 30 yourself for free.

Thanks. Got the tool set for Christmas.

[bshows73]

Thats pretty cool man. Should have bought that tool set along time ago and you could have swapped the dirty 30 yourself for free.

Nope he couldn't! Looking good man! Can you wheel it yet though?

[LSRGreg]

right on man.. nice to see it getting some love!

G-