249 to 231 input shaft sleeve

[traveler727]

Hey everyone
just found this forum last night.almost stayed up all night reading. I currently drive a 1986 toyota 4runner. but the family has grown and now i need 4 doors. I found a 95 zj that is in fair condition but it is a full time 4wheel drive 249 transfer case. I stayed up reading all the info on the swap to 231. so here is my question if i found a 231 with the same input spline count why is the input gear lenght so important is it because of the seal contact between the trans out put and the t-case input? or because of the out put shaft is not long enought to make sufficent engagement with the a short t-case input gear. the reason i ask is years ago i put a torque flight 727 with a 231 in a yj and had to get this ring to clock the t-case to get the front drive shaft up under the jeep the input gear on the t case was too short to mate with the seal on the trans side so the guy sent me a machined sleeve to extend the input gear shaft to contact the seal worked great. anyone tried this or am i just missing something all together?
thanks
joe

[traveler727]

I know someone out there knows.

[DJJordache]

is your 95 a V8 or I6?
what year and model did the 231 come out of?
the input length is both the seal engaugement and spline engaugement issues

[traveler727]

the jeep is a v8 and I'm still looking for a 231 i was wondering if there was enough spline engagement could you use a sleeve like the one I used to extened the input gear to reach the seal like when i did my torque flight 727 231 combo in my yj. just an idea might save some time and money if you had a 231 that had a input gear a little too short.

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

the jeep is a v8 and I'm still looking for a 231 i was wondering if there was enough spline engagement could you use a sleeve like the one I used to extened the input gear to reach the seal like when i did my torque flight 727 231 combo in my yj. just an idea might save some time and money if you had a 231 that had a input gear a little too short.

nothing like that can be done. once you crack the case open and look inside you will understand why. just do your best to find a match for your t-case swap and hope everything mates together. if not you might have to spend some time at the u-pull its getting some t-case parts.

[b1pig]

traveler, unless I totally am wrong, all NP/NV 249 cases used a short 23 spline input shaft (on ZJs). I would be cautious of putting a NP231 behind your V-8 if you plan on wheeling it agressively, though. Locating a NP231HD from a Dakota or something would be a more trusty choice there. The HD used a wider chain. Agressive wheeling with a NP231 can stretch the chain with the 4.0 engine.

Here is a positive point. Even if you locate a NP231 with a long input shaft, your SHOULD be able to break both trnafercases down and use your NV249 input and planetary set in the 231. I did it. I used a 2000 TJ NP231 and installed the planetary and input set from a '94 ZJ NP249. Been working happily together for the last 30,000 miles... here at home in the mud, the gravel pits of the Badlands and the slickrock of Moab.

[zjcrazy]

Just curious, isn't it possible to strip out the output shaft on the transmission by trying to use a spacer or something instead of using the correct shafts?

[MoonWorks]

traveler, unless I totally am wrong, all NP/NV 249 cases used a short 23 spline input shaft (on ZJs). I would be cautious of putting a NP231 behind your V-8 if you plan on wheeling it agressively, though. Locating a NP231HD from a Dakota or something would be a more trusty choice there. The HD used a wider chain. Agressive wheeling with a NP231 can stretch the chain with the 4.0 engine.

Here is a positive point. Even if you locate a NP231 with a long input shaft, your SHOULD be able to break both trnafercases down and use your NV249 input and planetary set in the 231. I did it. I used a 2000 TJ NP231 and installed the planetary and input set from a '94 ZJ NP249. Been working happily together for the last 30,000 miles... here at home in the mud, the gravel pits of the Badlands and the slickrock of Moab.

Nope...I have to disagree! My 94 249 case had the long shaft. I got a 242 case out of a 90 xj which had a short input shaft so I swapped the input shaft and planetary from my 249 into the 242. Although the HD231 would be a stronger case, the 231 would still be a better choice for the most part over the 249.

[DJJordache]

this should help ya... the only one I don't know about are the ones that came with the AX15.....
ZJ 93-93.3 4.0L aw4 = short
ZJ 93-95 4.0L = medium with internal collar
ZJ 96-98 4.0L = medium without internal collar
ZJ 93-95 v8 = long
ZJ 96-98 v8 (both) = medium without internal collar
short = .750" exposed
medium = .840" exposed
long = 1.55" exposed

edit to add more clarification for the archives

[b1pig]

preppi. no argument about the 231 being a better unit for offroading... but there is a reason why Jeep didnt put it behind the 5.2 ... on the trucks, the 231HD was used because it was stronger. Ever look at the size of the case of the 249? it's a bit larger than the 231. The case strength alone is worth considering. many 231s were destroyed by guys running tall tires, low gears and lots of torque. In lighter rigs. I only run 33's and 4.56 gears, but having noted the size of many of the rigs on this forum....

and something else that comes to mind.

the '00 TJ 231 had the long 23 spline shaft (manual tranny IIRC). the 249 .. from a '94 ZJ 42RH.. had the SHORT 23 spline shaft, but it used a sleeve INSIDE the input shaft. kinda like a pilot bushing. since i was putting it on a '98 tranny (that does not have that taper for the sleeve), I cut the sleeve out. Been working fine for the last 4 years.
also... what was the year where the 21 spline shaft was phased out? I had a '89 XJ NP231 from a AW4 in peices and it had the 21 spline shaft.

[DJJordache]

90 was the las tyear they used the 21 spline on the 4.0L not totally sure when on the 4cyl models.
My little chart above only applies to ZJ's. it is still possible to get the long in other applications. b1pig your thinking about the MEDIUM that had the input sleeve not the short they are pretty close though. I also ran into the input sleeve and gear pitch issue when building my tcase. My input and planetary is from a 95 249 and I put it into a 2000 231, they were both the medium but I wanted to get the collar to ride on the output of my transmission.

[MoonWorks]

How did I know that I wasn't going to have to comment and DJJordache would give the most technical answer as always. Especially when it comes to tcases or tranny's.

Just so I know...what do you do? Sit around and read about different t-cases all day b/c I haven't seen a thread yet where you didn't come back some some exact, very specific answer to the question. Don't get me wrong, I think it great...just curious! Rock on!

[DJJordache]

haha I feel the love I just am in college right now trying to finish things up to be able to start a real job so I can afford more expensive Jeep mods, oh and a family sometime in the distant future too
I just have done a ton of research on this stuff from back when I did my 4wd swap and when I had to rebuild my brothers tcase in his 4.7L stroker XJ since his d35 didn't like 51% more HP and 61% more TQ (dyno proven after storker break-in, but has even more now) and killed the carrier and locked up the d35 at about 50mph and that inturn killed his 242 tcase since he was in full time also. The damage from that was crazy! Destroyed spiders and cross-shaft, twisted splines on the rear driveshaft yoke and tcase mainshaft, and slightly twisted axle shaft splines, blew up the dif inside the 242 case and more.

[Joseph]

This is close to my dilema so let me ask this. I am going to swap a 242 in for my 249, guessing the 242 is medium shaft and 249 is long. So if I swap the input shafts so the 242 will work, what do I do with my 249??

[b1pig]

this is the first place I ever heard of a "medium" reference on the t-case input.

I'm guessing that New Process/New Venture brought in a new input? Did this affect the other Jeeps of similar years?

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

This is close to my dilema so let me ask this. I am going to swap a 242 in for my 249, guessing the 242 is medium shaft and 249 is long. So if I swap the input shafts so the 242 will work, what do I do with my 249??

what do you want to do with it? most people toss it in a box and forget about it. if you are looking to sell it, toss the 242 shaft in it and call it good.

[Joseph]

what do you want to do with it? most people toss it in a box and forget about it. if you are looking to sell it, toss the 242 shaft in it and call it good.

Well that is what I was wondering. Would it even be worth reassembling with the medium shaft or just box it up and label it Parts for 249?

-Joseph

[DJJordache]

This is close to my dilema so let me ask this. I am going to swap a 242 in for my 249, guessing the 242 is medium shaft and 249 is long. So if I swap the input shafts so the 242 will work, what do I do with my 249??

I'm assuming your 249 comes from your 95 5.2L, so what does your 242 come from? it might just be a straight input swap...

this is the first place I ever heard of a "medium" reference on the t-case input.
I'm guessing that New Process/New Venture brought in a new input? Did this affect the other Jeeps of similar years?

I don't know if it started with the NP NV thing but it started with the 93 42re and is now in most of the Jeep lineup (WJ, 96+XJ, KJ, NOT the WK this one is like extra long, and you can still get all 3 in the newer wranglers depending on engine drivetrain setup, don't know about the XK or the compass "thing")

Well that is what I was wondering. Would it even be worth reassembling with the medium shaft or just box it up and label it Parts for 249?

it might be worth it to try and rebuild the 249 with the 242 input but you might end up with a case that not many want....my old 95 249 is a bunch of parts laying around that I have sold a few things out of it while parting it out

[Joseph]

Djjordache- I am getting the case from EMTimZJ, I beleive he said it is the medium shaft. My NP249 is out of a my '95 behind the 46rh, and from what I read, I believe it is a safe assumption, that I have a long shaft. What would happen if I swapped the 242 in just using the medium shaft?

-Joseph

[DJJordache]

Djjordache- I am getting the case from EMTimZJ, I beleive he said it is the medium shaft. My NP249 is out of a my '95 behind the 46rh, and from what I read, I believe it is a safe assumption, that I have a long shaft. What would happen if I swapped the 242 in just using the medium shaft?

-Joseph

I would not recomend it but it might be possible... there might be enough to engauge the seal and enough splines. find out what year the 242 is because there are differences in the input pitches and bearing shoulder lengths. check this out for some pics I did a while back that show 2 different inputs the short and medium with differnt bearing lengths