Converting a WJ 242 Tcase to Geared Spedo Output

[chadjans]

I am about to embark on putting a D60 and 14b under a WJ. It has a 242 Transfer Case and we will need a Tcase spedo output. I will admit I have not cracked a WJ Tcase yet.

So, can a "Late Design" SYE kit from Tom Woods be made to fit a WJ transfer case? http://www.4xshaft.com/SYE/242LateDe...e27spline.html

Chad

[moparrr07]

the problem is that the mainshaft (output shaft) has splines cut into it on speedo t case, wj cases do not have these splines cut

so that kit includes a mainshaft and the rear housing, looks good to me, all you would need is the gear itsself and the sensor,

just not sure on how you would make that communicate to the wj speedo

[AgitatedPancake]

Is this a I6 242 or a V8 242HD? They are completely different cases, and require different mods

[Jeeptech01]

I would imagine it is an I-6 since they are more common. But you never know. AFAIK noone makes a true sye for the 242hd. I know there are some variants of the hack n tap but not a full "kit"

ed: It appears that is intended for an xj application but I believe the xj and wj 242's all share the same parts other than the input gear and output shaft and housing. Might wanna check with tom woods to be sure you will get the core charge back since you will be sending back a different shaft.

Also after pondering the 242 vs the 231 I went 231. If you are putting in a 60/14b combo wouldnt a 231 be better suited given its torque rating? There is a good chart on the novak website illustrating the strength differences. Plus the 231 already has a speedo output and they are CHEAP.

[FearTheDentist]

I just put a 60\14bolt\231 under my WJ so probably have a lot of relevant info if you need.

As far as making it communicate with the speedo goes, I just did this with the 231 last week (I imagine this will all apply to your application or at least get you pointed in the right direction). You'll have to do the math for your gearing, but I've got 35's with 5.13 gearing, and with a 35 tooth gear I read almost exactly 15% high. I've got a 30 tooth gear on order which should correct it.

As for wiring, the wire colors on sensor are:
1) Orange- power
2) Orange\White- speed signal to PCM
3) Dark blue (I think, it was dark)- signal ground (I just grounded to the chassis)

Pull the ABS harness and find the dark green\yellow wire- this is the speed signal to PCM, so cut it and splice your orange\white in here.

Since you no longer will need the tone ring sensors, for the new t-case sensor just re-use the wire that's already in place to the driver's rear sensor. The solid wire is 12v supply, the striped is the wheel speed signal to ABS. So-to get the job done, ground the dark blue wire from the sensor, and from the wheel speed sensor wires patch solid to orange, striped to orange\white, then at the ABS harness cut the striped one and splice to dark green\yellow. Clear as mud?

Also- the 231 sensor calls for a 5v supply, but from the reading I did the type of sensor used is pretty tolerant of a range of voltages. I have a voltage converter, but I also have a spare sensor, so in the name of testing it out for future hacks, I wired it to 12v rather than track down a 5v supply or rig in the voltage converter. So far I have not had any trouble, though it may burn out over time, we'll see. If you want to play it safe, you can pick up a 5v converter at Fry's electronics down on Baseline (I have an unopened one sitting in front of me that I picked up for another application a few years ago..). Specifically it's NTE part# NTE960, cost $1.49. It's just 3 pins- ground, Vin(up to 35v), and Vout(5v)

If you need any other info let me know.

[chadjans]

Is this a I6 242 or a V8 242HD? They are completely different cases, and require different mods

I6. A build post will be started soon.

AFAIK noone makes a true sye for the 242hd. I know there are some variants of the hack n tap but not a full "kit"

It appears that is intended for an xj application but I believe the xj and wj 242's all share the same parts other than the input gear and output shaft and housing.

Might wanna check with tom woods to be sure you will get the core charge back since you will be sending back a different shaft.

Also after pondering the 242 vs the 231 I went 231. If you are putting in a 60/14b combo wouldnt a 231 be better suited given its torque rating?

There is a good chart on the novak website illustrating the strength differences.

Plus the 231 already has a speedo output and they are CHEAP.

I know there is no offical "kit," never has been. I would prefer a professional hack and tap versus a garage hack and tap, though.

There are some similarities. I have found most of the variations exist with the input gears and main shafts.

Noted.

I know the 242 has a lower torque rating than the 231 and has better aftermarket support. The owner (Justin) wants to keep 2wd. And honestly I think he would be more happy with a 2wd case, based on the goal of this build stage.

This is a chart I found: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169518

I can get my hands on a spedo gear so that isn't really an issue.

[chadjans]

David (Halfdoc) did send me some info in regards to wiring Brian, which goes along with what you wrote. I am sure I will have some other questions. A huge thank you, for the offer!

I wasn't aware of your recent conversion. How do you like it? Justin will be daily driving his rig after this build. All due to his blown up 35C in Moab...

[FearTheDentist]

David (Halfdoc) did send me some info in regards to wiring Brian, which goes along with what you wrote. I am sure I will have some other questions. A huge thank you, for the offer!

I wasn't aware of your recent conversion. How do you like it? Justin will be daily driving his rig after this build. All due to his blown up 35C in Moab...

So Dave finally got a new t-case. He must miss the sound of his chain slipping almost as much as he misses cleaning up the aluminum shavings from his 44a...

Love it so far, no complaints. Did a ton of overdue maintenance (control arm bushing, TRE's (actually all new steering..), etc), drives better than it has in years. Be prepared for some fender trimming, esp. if you go full width, but I know you're quite comfortable with that (didn't you help Dave with this as well?). Only complaint I have is I wish the shop had shaved the 14 bolt a bit more, it does hang a bit low. You probably know a lot more than I about this, but there was a thread somewhere where IndyZJ (I think? maybe it was Kraqa) was talking about turning the ring gear down about 1\4" and being able to shave it quite a bit more as a result. I had hoped to do this but didn't have ready access to a shop with the equipment to turn metal a gear this hard. If you don't already know what I'm talking about it's around here somewhere.

[chadjans]

So Dave finally got a new t-case. He must miss the sound of his chain slipping almost as much as he misses cleaning up the aluminum shavings from his 44a...

Love it so far, no complaints. Did a ton of overdue maintenance (control arm bushing, TRE's (actually all new steering..), etc), drives better than it has in years.

Be prepared for some fender trimming, esp. if you go full width, but I know you're quite comfortable with that (didn't you help Dave with this as well?).

Only complaint I have is I wish the shop had shaved the 14 bolt a bit more, it does hang a bit low.

You probably know a lot more than I about this, but there was a thread somewhere where IndyZJ (I think? maybe it was Kraqa) was talking about turning the ring gear down about 1\4" and being able to shave it quite a bit more as a result. I had hoped to do this but didn't have ready access to a shop with the equipment to turn metal a gear this hard. If you don't already know what I'm talking about it's around here somewhere.

Dave went to a 231. Was able to sell the 44a and D30 pretty easily.

You mention steering. Did you do ram assist?

Justin's rig is already trimmed. I would say the anmount of trimming needed is more of a function of tire size and not so much on axle width. Full width gets the tires out there away from the inner fender which is where most of the rubbing occurs.

We will make the diff lip meet the diff cover. No shave kits here. One needs to learn how to drive with a 14b. The cast eventually wears through in these parts. And I have considered welding plate on to the bottom to eliminate the catch points. Besides I don't like the shave kits on the market. And welding to cast brings the suck.

Ballistic and another company advertising on Pirate make them.

[FearTheDentist]

Full width gets the tires out there away from the inner fender which is where most of the rubbing occurs.

And therein lies the problem. Not rubbing on the inside anymore, now you catch the fender with the outside of the tire on the side you're turning to. The photo attached is with ~1.5" of trimming and beating down the seam. I'll have to do some tweaking- moving the slider back and lengthening the control arms ~.5" should just squeak by, but it already wants to dig in to the front of the fender\trailing edge of the bumper when I flex so can't really afford to move forward much. I'll just have to fiddle with it until I find a reasonable compromise.

New drag link and tie rod, haven't added assist yet, just added the tabs for when I get around to it, it's in the works.

[Jeeptech01]

I know the 242 has a lower torque rating than the 231 and has better aftermarket support. The owner (Justin) wants to keep 2wd. And honestly I think he would be more happy with a 2wd case, based on the goal of this build stage.

What do you mean by this? Both 231 and 242 have 2wd selection. Did you mean the part time 4x4 selection? That is why I wanted to use the 242 case.

Should be a cool build I'll be looking for it!!

[iluvtruenos]

According to NV, the 242 is stronger than the 231.

The middle number is the torque capacity. Offhand, I think the 242 has a 1" wide chain whereas the 231 is 7/8"

[IndyZJ]

According to NV, the 242 is stronger than the 231.

The middle number is the torque capacity. Offhand, I think the 242 has a 1" wide chain whereas the 231 is 7/8"

Depends on which 242 you're talking about - the HD and AMG 242s are stronger than either 231, but the regular 231 is stronger than the regular 242 according to this NV chart.

http://moose.ca/new-venture-gear-transfer-case-chart/

[Jeeptech01]

On a side note I never paid attention to how little the swap from 231 to 231 hd netted you. Looks like roughly 100 ft lb. But then the 241 takes 5555 ft lb? Whats the difference? IIRC you steal the parts (wide chain, gears and front output) from the 241 to make the 231 hd??? WTF

[IndyZJ]

Yeah, I was skeptical of that, too. I also think the wider chain and additional planetaries have to do more than that. I doubt NV would have done the extra work for virtually no gain. I would think it was closer to the 242HD number, if not slightly above it. Aren't the upgrades for both cases pretty similar?

The BS is obvious on at least the 241 torque rating in the chart. It gives the 241 a 241HD the same number, which is higher than that of the 261HD.

Other than that, the regular 231, 242, and 249 numbers are consistent with what I've seen.

[AgitatedPancake]

The difference that the 241/241HD/242HD have over the 231 is most the rear output shaft. The 231's were 27 spline, and all the cases listed above have the 32 spline slip yoke style rear outputs and run a 1330 U-joint at the tcase instead of a 1310 AFAIK.

But yeah when you really look at strength comparisons between all of them, the big things to consider are chain width and output shaft splines.
I think this list is mostly accurate...

Narrow Chain: 231, 242, 247, 249
Wide Chain: 231HD, 242HD, 241, 241HD.

27 spline rear outputs: 231, 231HD, 242, 247, 249
32 spline rear outputs 242HD, 241, 241HD

[IndyZJ]

The difference that the 241/241HD/242HD have over the 231 is most the rear output shaft. The 231's were 27 spline, and all the cases listed above have the 32 spline slip yoke style rear outputs and run a 1330 U-joint at the tcase instead of a 1310 AFAIK.

But yeah when you really look at strength comparisons between all of them, the big things to consider are chain width and output shaft splines.
I think this list is mostly accurate...

Narrow Chain: 231, 242, 247, 249
Wide Chain: 231HD, 242HD, 241, 241HD.

27 spline rear outputs: 231, 231HD, 242, 247, 249
32 spline rear outputs 242HD, 241, 241HD

Good call on the output shaft. I didn't even think about that since I threw a 32 spline SYE in my 231C without looking at the stock output shaft. 231Cs came with 1330 yokes.

[Jeeptech01]

Well dont have to worry about that then. My hd sye that I installed is 32 spl output. Looks like all I need now is a 6 puck planetary, wide chain and gears, and front output.

I had forgotten that the 241 had the 6 puck planetary set. So basically (correct me if Im wrong) adding a hd sye and the 241 parts listed above should give you the same torque capacity as a 241.

[iluvtruenos]

Yea, I take back what I said (Retard)

The 231 is listed at 1885ft/b whereas the 242 is 1486ft/lb

[Pitch]

Chad,

The Tom Woods 242 SYE kit that I installed on my old WJ about 6(?) years ago included a new cut-down mainshaft that actually had the speedo gear drive on it. This differed from the stock WJ I6 242 mainshaft that had no speedo gear cut. I know this because I looked at them again, side by side about 6 months ago. On such a new shaft (which is the same as an XJ 242 shaft that has been hacked and tapped by TW's shop), all that would be needed to modify it to a speedo pickup would be a new tail shaft, and the speedo assembly itself.

Couple this with the wiring that Brian outlines (which also mirrors the Tru-speed tap-in insructions) and you are set. You can really use any size speedo gear that you want, since it is a computer generated pulse that is interpreted by the "CAB" or anti-lock brak controller under the hood. It is not an entirely mechanical setup like that found on a D300.

FWIW, I would highly recommend the Truspeed setup. Made for a huge improvement in the shift points on the I6 tranny.

[quadratokn]

Anyone running a 241HD in their WJ?? Any PTO shit to worry about?

[Technohead]

I was running a 242 from a WJ in my ZJ for a while. Installed the TW SYE kit and the speedo worked fine.

[Jeeptech01]

So the tw kit had a tail cone with a boss for the speedo gear?

I wonder if a zj xj tailcone would fit a wj 242 or 242hd?

[Technohead]

The TW kit comes with the tail cone AND the output shaft. Its been a while now and I can't remember if the original output shaft would have worked with a mechanical speedo.

[Jeeptech01]

Always wondered if it was possible. No particular reason.